As discussed in class on Wednesday, Plato’s
Symposium suggests two means to reach immortality through love. The
first form of immortality comes through sexual reproduction of children, and is
achieved through the love of a body, while the second form of immortality comes
through collaborating in the creation of an idea. In this blog post I will
prove that, first, immortality through ideas is seen as a higher form of
immortality, and second, that the inferior immortality provided through
children is associated with women, while the superior immortality provided
through ideas is associated with men. Combined, these two points demonstrate
how the imminence of women leads them to be inferior to the transcendence
represented by men within the text.
Immortality through ideas is
represented as the superior form of immortality when Diotima says (according to
a long line of hearsay) that ideas “are more beautiful and more immortal [than
human children]. Everyone would rather have such children [(ideas)] than human ones”
(209 D-C). As Diotima is the one who clearly articulates the difference between
the two forms of immortality, her opinion carries a large amount of weight. It
is further backed up by the logic that every living thing “never consists of
the same things, though [it] is called the same, but [it] is always being
renewed and in other respects passing away, in [it’s] hair and flesh and bone
and blood and [it’s] entire body” (207 D-E). Because all living things are
constantly being worn away, transformed, and replaced by biological processes,
they are not truly immortal evening during their own lives, and especially so
through the lives of their offspring and their offspring’s offspring, all of
whom will be continuously changing. This lack of permanence is clearly
inferior, as the ultimate goal of love according to Socrates and Diotima is to know
the nature of Love and Beauty, which “is always one in form” (211B). In this
way, immortality through ideas is closer to the ultimate goal of love, and is
superior to immortality through physical reproduction.
To reach immortality through
offspring, a man and a woman must reproduce; but within Symposium, this
act is represented primarily by the woman. While only males are discussed in
terms of reaching for immortality, Diotima explains “some people are pregnant
in body, and for this reason turn more to women” (208E). However, those who
pursue the superior form of reproduction through ideas are presented as being
attracted to men, as his drive to find someone to beget intellectually with
leads him to a beautiful and noble soul as “such a man makes him instantly teem
with ideas and arguments about virtue” (209 B-C). While those who wish to
reproduce in body are attracted to women, it is assumed that those wishing to
reproduce in mind are attracted to men.
By placing intellectual reproduction
over physical reproduction and then associating women with the inferior of the
two, Symposium attributes to the relegation of women to the realm of imminence
and denies them the transcendence enjoyed by men.
Lachlan brings up a very interesting point in relating the concepts of immortality to gender roles. I found that this is particularly relevant considering that we recently finished reading "The Second Sex" which articulates the notion that women have become the "Other." Lachlan's point that gender plays a part in the value of immortality showed me that inequality is not only apparent in feminist texts, and has in fact been around for millennia. The idea that love, "is giving birth in beauty, whether in body or soul," is followed by the statement that "ideas are more beautiful and more immortal" (206C, 209D-C), which suggests that immortality related to wisdom is more valuable than immortality related to childbirth. Lachlan does an excellent job of bringing forth a point that we have not yet discussed and relates it to a pre-existing concept.
ReplyDeleteTo expand upon Lachlan's point of women's representation of inferior reproduction is Diotima's description of Love's parents. Love resembles his mother in his "having his mother's nature, always living with need" (203D). Being needy and the previous description, with descriptors such as "poor," unattractive, "tough and shriveled and shoeless and homeless, have negative connotations like like does the need of immortality through reproduction. Children are the less wise form of immortality, as Lachlan says they're impermanent, and Socrates describes Love's mother as "not wise and lacks resource" (204B). However, the father, the male, who represents immortality through timeless ideas is the better parent. The father is "after the beautiful and the good," is "brave and impetuous and intense... resourceful in his pursuit of intelligence," and, most importantly, "a love of wisdom" (203D). The male embodies these very positive attributes associated with philosophy and crafting ideas that will outlive any physical body, becoming permanent and important. The male embodies this "intellectual reproduction" and establishes the male as the better sex in Symposium.
ReplyDeleteEric's gives a great example of how the story of Love's parents exemplifies how women are associated solely with physical reproduction and not intellectual. By definition according to the footnotes, the father of love, Poros, means "resource" and Penia means poverty. Since love is defined as the desire for beauty and good forever, and Penia seeks out reproduction, she shows the kind of desire for the physical immortality instead of the intellectual. As Lachlan points out, this kind of love is associated with women, and shows a kind of inferiority in Symposium.
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